Saturday, March 10, 2012

r/mensrights tagged as hate site?!?

This is kind of sad, apparently the Southern Poverty Law Center has tagged reddits r/mensright as a misogynistic group. I am not too sure what the SPLC does but those claims are taking seriously by mods in that subreddit (as far as I can tell, one just quit. As far as what they say, I am not sure how serious one can take them, for once they talk a bit about Kloo who hasn't been a mod for months, they apparently believe manboobz is a valuable source and they "debunk" some claims in a way that really makes me wonder if they did research the issues at all. As far as I can tell reason magazine and buisnessinsider already have a post up:
Reason: It is truly sublime that a group the DHS cited in its controversial report on right-wing terrorism now turns to a website called "Man Boobz" for its hate-group reporting. More sublime is the fact that the SPLC has listed a D.C.-area pickup artist who goes by RooshV in its list of women-haters [...] Take note, America: Having consensual sex (Roosh is not a rapist, but a seducer and a pig) with someone you don't actually like and then never calling her/him again will land you in a reputation-ruining (In case that part's not clear: I'm not talking about social capital, but the fact that the SPLC's Intelligence Report gets sent to every law enforcement agency in the country) SPLC report. BuisnessInsider: Well, now the Southern Poverty Law Center isn't just going after organized (and disorganized) racism, they are expanding their mission to fight creepy guys who pick up women. In their expanded "Misogyny Report," the SPLC lists a number of blogs they deem to have bad attitudes about women. Some of these are by "pick-up-artists." A few of the quotes they cite in this important report are truly piggish. But they don't look like crimes. The SPLC held up for ridicule one D.C. blogger for saying of American girls that he "made it a point to f#*k them and never call again.” Not rape. Just being a jerk. [...] Be careful, fellas: If you use your personal blog to rant about women, a civil rights group just might publicize details about your mortgage and medical history.
Now, I am not saying there is no problem with misogyny in the MRM, there is, a huge part of the problem however is refusing to censor/ban misogynist as the take is that the other people will downvote these comments (which of course does not always work). So again, there are misogynists posting in said groups, most people there however are not. Anyhow, interesting times people, interesting times.


More responses to the SPLC coming in:

From the Goodmenproject, apparently there was nothing to connect the blogs listed to terrorist attacks and apparently the SPLC founder is worse than some of the people linked on that site.

Dees’ divorce records show a man who was seemingly more extreme in deed than any of the bloggers mentioned in the SPLC report. [...] "Morris was acting crazy, and Maureene thought he was going to kill everybody in sight. He told her that he had five detectives with him (R.592). He hit her and gave her a busted jaw. (R. 592)." [...] If the divorce document is true, it is interesting to note that the SPLC is ignoring the violent misogynist in their own midst while taking aim at rhetoric contained on a few websites.

Another blogger takes a closer look at the SPLC:

There is NO legal definition of “hate group,” which is why even the FBI does not, cannot, designate “hate groups.”
The SPLC uses the deliberately meaningless term “hate groups” in its fund-raising materials because it allows them to denigrate groups and individuals with which it disagrees without accusing them of any actual crimes, as noted in the last line of the “Hate Map” legend:
“Listing here does not imply a group advocates or engages in violence or other criminal activity.”[...]
“Hate group activities can include criminal acts, marches, rallies, speeches, meetings, leafleting or publishing.”

Marches, rallies, speeches, meetings, etc. are all Constitutionally protected under the Bill of Rights. The SPLC deliberately conflates these basic civil rights with criminal acts and “hate group” activities because it frightens their mostly elderly donor base. [...]

The more money the Southern Poverty Law Center makes, the more “hate groups” they seem to find.

And in an interesting turn of events, the radfemhub (not linked), a radical feminist board where members fantasize about the extermination of males, are collecting funds. Also, the mod that quit due to the SPLC's actions, might be coming back.

And while I am at it, a closer look at some of the debunking the SPLC did:

Men’s rights activists often insist that men are victimized by sex crimes and abuse just as much as women are, if not more. This assertion is meant to support their contention that the courts and laws outrageously favor women. -> A major 2010 study by the Centers for Disease Control’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control thoroughly debunks such claims...

I had this study up more than once. This is just selective reading by the SPLC. For instance, the study found comparable rates when you look at the last year and view female-on-male rape as rape. So either the SPLC did not read the statistic or does not believe that men can be raped by women or they would have acknowledged that the MR-claim, when not ignoring what the study found last year, is not false.

In another effort to show that men are discriminated against, many men’s rights activists assert that women attack men just as much as men attack women, if not more. The website is one of many that criticizes what it characterizes as “the myth that women are less violent than men.” -> Men’s rights groups often cite the work of Deborah Capaldi, a researcher with the Oregon Learning Center, to back their claim. Capaldi did find that women sometimes initiate partner violence, although women involved in mutually aggressive partner relationships were more likely to suffer severe injuries than the men. But Capaldi studied only a very particular subset of the population

WTF, I haven't even heard of that study. Look, if you post about such topics you should at least read some of the literature. For instance that women attack men just as much as men attack women is not even a MR claim. It is a claim that many DV studies and researchers make. To cite Fiebert:

This bibliography examines 282 scholarly investigations: 218 empirical studies and 64 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 369,800.

The whole argument that surrounds the issue is about common couple violence vs intimate terrorism. If you count it blow-by-blow, yes, women are as aggressive as men. Oh my.

And TS also blogged about it, as well as Typhonblue.


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